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Episode 2 of Field Notes out now: Supporting gifted and talented students with Bernadette Bentley

Feature 32 minute read

In this episode Marc Kralj speaks with Bernadette Bentley, Education Officer with Sydney Catholic Schools. Bernadette explains how gifted and talented students may be identified, as well as how to best support these students and continue to challenge them.  

A key goal of ACER's Progressive Achievement approach to assessment is to meet the learning needs of all students, wherever they are in their learning. Often, we think about how to support students who may be at risk of falling behind or who need additional help to progress. However, the Progressive Achievement approach also means ensuring that high performing students have the opportunity to excel, develop and continue to be challenged in their schooling. 

In this engaging and informative episode, Bernadette provides valuable insights into how giftedness and talent can be defined and measured across different learning areas and talks through some misconceptions that frequently occur. She also talks though how recognizing and nurturing the talents of these students can help them reach their full potential.

We hope you enjoy this next episode of a Field Notes, a podcast that aims to share honest conversations with leading educational practitioners about how they use evidence to improve learning outcomes in a range of school settings.  

You can stream the episode below, or though Spotify or Amazon Music, or keep reading for the transcript. 




Alex: In the spirit of reconciliation, ACER acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. ACER acknowledges the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who continue to contribute to our work to improve learning, education and research.   

 Welcome to Field Notes, a podcast from the Australian Council for Educational Research that explores the impact of research-informed initiatives in the classroom.   

 In today’s episode, our education consultant Marc Kralj speaks with Bernadette Bentley, Education Officer with Sydney Catholic Schools.  

A central aim of ACER’s progressive achievement approach to assessment is to ensure that all students have their learning needs met, regardless of where they are in their individual learning journey.   

This is a challenge often conceptualised in the context of addressing the needs of students that are at risk of falling academically behind their peers. Of course, it is equally important that educators ensure that identified gifted and talented and high performing students are given the opportunity to excel in their learning and remain engaged and challenged throughout their schooling.  

In this episode, Bernadette provides valuable insight into how giftedness and talent can be defined and measured across different domains and some of the misconceptions that can emerge in this process. She also explains how gifted and talented students may be identified and the ways to assess how best to support these students and continue to challenge them.  

You will hear Bernadette refer to COGAT, AGAT and PAT. COGAT stands for Cognitive Abilities Test, an ability test available from ACER. AGAT stands for ACER’s General Ability Test and PAT stands for Progressive Achievement Test, with both AGAT and PAT developed by the Australian Council for Educational Research.  

If you’re an educator or parent of a gifted and talented student, or if you’re simply interested in how gifted and talented students can be identified and catered for, I think you’ll really enjoy listening to Bernadette’s wealth of knowledge in this area.  

Let’s jump into Marc’s conversation with Bernadette now.  


Marc: Today I'm joined by Bernadette Bentley. Bernadette Bentley has an amazing career and an amazing amount of knowledge and background that I've learnt over the last few years, and certainly over the last few conversations that I've had with her. Bernadette is currently the Education Officer for Research and Analytics with the Sydney Catholic Schools in New South Wales, and she's previously had the capacity around working as Education Officer for Gifted Education. So to begin with, I'd like to ask Bernadette just to talk a bit about herself, and also probably give us a couple of definitions about our topic today. Thank you, Bernadette.  

Bernadette: Thanks for having me, Marc. I'm very grateful to have this opportunity. Well, my background begins in the performing arts, and I studied at the New South Wales State Conservatorium from the age of 14, and my major was in piano, and then I completed my undergraduate there, and that was a Bachelor of Music Education. So I've taught and been head of department from K to 12 in Music, Dance, Drama, and Entertainment. I was always wanting to learn, so I've had further studies, and they've included performance diplomas with my piano work, NIDA courses in VET entertainment, and I've had the privilege of being able to complete 3 masters. So my first one was in Education Administration, my second in Gifted Education, and the final one was in Educational Psychology, which has really, really helped me with my work with helping with gifted education and with moving forward in research and analytics at Sydney Catholic schools.  

So what we're talking about today is giftedness and the assessment of gifted students. And I think it's really really important for us to start with – well, what does giftedness and what does talent mean? So the majority of New South Wales looks at Gagné’s definition, and Gagné defines giftedness as the possession and use of outstanding natural abilities, and he calls them aptitudes. And this is in at least one ability domain, and it's also to the degree that places that particular student in at least the top 10% of their aged peers. Talent designates the outstanding mastery of systematically developed abilities, and Gagné calls them competencies. So it's the knowledge and the skills in at least one field of human activity to a degree that places the student at least among the top 10% of age peers who are or have been active in that field. So the system of levels applies to every domain. So we've got systems of levels that start with classification such as mildly gifted, moderately gifted, highly exceptional and profoundly, and because giftedness domains are not closely correlated, individuals gifted in one domain are not necessarily the same as those gifted in another. So consequently, the total number of gifted and talented individuals and our students within our schools could far exceed the 10% value, and some studies indicate that it might well be at least 3 times larger than that.  

So we're talking about domains, and with Gagné he's got the differentiating model of giftedness and talent. So he talks about the different aptitudes or domains, and he has the mental domains – which are the intellectual, creative, social and perceptual – and the physical domains of the muscular and motor control. And then in his model he's got the catalysts in the middle, and that's where we come in, you know – we've got to be able to provide an environment for our students so that they can grow, and we can nurture their gifts into talent. The intrapersonal: so the traits of our students, whether they're twice exceptional, how their personalities fit in with the 5 factor model of a general personality structure – so looking at the broad domains of neuroticism or extroversion, openness, agreeableness and conscientiousness. And looking at that, and then the developmental process within the model, is a huge catalyst for us as educators.  

So what access do we provide our gifted students, the content – what format? What are other resources that we have? What's our engagement and perseverance with this? And how do we progress our students, what stages and what pace? Where's our turning points for these students? And then hopefully, we can help our students move to being talented, and having competence in different fields, such as academic or technical, in the sciences and technology, the arts, even people services in management and business and sports and athletics. 

Marc: Bernadette, thank you. I think it's really important that even before we start today's podcast is that people have some definitions. I think we have a lot of misconceptions around what people think higher-order thinking is, high performing students, what they think gifted and talented is. I certainly know, as a parent – parents certainly have their idea about what gifted and talented is as well, so as an educator, as teachers and leaders in schools, it's important that if they are going down that avenue, that they have a clear concept of what these are. And if they don't – where do they go to find out? So I'm hoping – not hoping, I know today's podcast will actually give a greater insight into that. I’d like to begin with this question to you, though, and that is why is it important to identify students who are high performing students? 

Bernadette: It's really important to identify gifted students for several reasons. We don't identify them to label, but to allow educators and parents and our educational leaders to address the unique needs and aptitudes of these students. So some of the key reasons why identifying gifted students is crucial: the first one may be due to tailoring educational opportunities for these students, so gifted students who are gifted in an academic domain. They have advanced cognitive abilities and a faster pace of learning, so identifying them allows educators to provide more challenging and stimulating learning experience that meet their intellectual needs. Tailored education opportunities can prevent boredom, frustration, disengagement in the classroom, and also this may lead to underachievement of these students. 

Another reason is to optimise their aptitudes and their gifts. So, recognizing and nurturing the giftedness can help these students reach their full potential and realising their aptitude into competencies and talent. So, failing to identify and support these gifted students actually may result in missed opportunities for academic or creative or leadership development. By understanding and addressing their unique abilities, educators can help them excel and contribute significantly to various fields via the catalysts in Gagné's model, and include the environment, the intrapersonal and the developmental process catalysts. 

Another really significant reason that we need to identify our gifted students is their social and emotional needs. So our gifted students may face social-emotional challenges, such as feeling isolated, misunderstood, feeling different or dealing with maladaptive rather than adaptive perfectionism. So identifying them allows educators to provide appropriate support and foster a positive emotional environment. And this can include programs addressing social skills or counselling services and creating a supportive peer community. Social-emotional learning needs to be embedded into the curriculum to support our students’ both affective and academic developments. And CASEL has a wonderful program that will help teachers to do that. So social-emotional needs are a construct of well-being. But so many people get social-emotional and well-being mixed up, and the 2 terms are not interchangeable.  

So social-emotional is an integral part of education and human development, and social-emotional learning is the process through which all young people and adults acquire and apply the knowledge and the skills and the attitudes to develop healthy identities, to manage their emotions and achieve personal and collective goals, to feel and to show empathy for others, and establish and maintain our supportive relationships and make responsible decisions. Whereas well-being is a multi-dimensional concept, and it takes into account the physical, the mental, the emotional, and social aspects of health, as well as the individual's capacity to achieve balance between facing challenges and having the resources needed to meet those challenges. Social-emotional learning is very close to my heart, and I'm very, very passionate about it. And I think it's really important that we understand the difference between social-emotional learning and well-being.  

Other reasons for identifying our students – so we need to understand that identifying gifted students helps schools allocate resources effectively. So this may involve differentiation, advanced work, acceleration, more depth, more breadth, more complexity within the course work in the classroom. So additional teacher training to meet the unique needs of gifted learners is absolutely paramount, and the proper resource allocation ensures that teachers can make the most of their resources to benefit all students. 

We also have to look at equity in education. So identifying and serving gifted students is essential for promoting equity. So without the proper identification, gifted students from underrepresented groups may be overlooked, and this perpetuates the disparity to accessing educational opportunities. So efforts should be made to ensure that gifted identification processes are fair and inclusive. We also want to prepare for future challenges. 

Gifted individuals often become leaders, innovators, and contribute to various fields, so identifying and nurturing their gifts early on helps prepare them for future challenges, and fostering a generation of students who can make a real significant contribution to society. 

Also, finally, I think we need to make sure that we address diverse talents. So giftedness can manifest in various ways; we know with Gagné's model, could be intellectual, creative, artistic, and leadership abilities. So identifying gifted students allows educators to recognize and address this diversity of talents and tailor intervention, support, and provisions to help our students in their specific areas of strength. 

Marc: Bernadette, I'm really glad that you not just talk about high performing students and gifted and talented, but you address social-emotional wellbeing and the importance of identifying that we're not just looking at numbers or scores, but we're looking at the whole child. And I think, addressing, as you said, each of these areas, their talents and their pathways. I think that's really crucial, because we often talk about pathways at a secondary level. But identifying these early where we can, if we can, and putting things in place, I think that's really quite crucial. My next questions are these, and that is, you know, to identify students who are high performing and possibly identified as gifted and talented. And I suppose part of that questioning is around, what assessments have we used, or you used or identified successfully to be able to track these students, and have they been useful? Because, as we know, assessments are great. But I always think about one thing: an assessment can be used well, or an assessment can be used badly. What are your thoughts on that? 

Bernadette: I think it's really important that we have a number of measures to identify giftedness, and we triangulate the data. So if the teacher suspects that a child may be gifted, they can consider a number of measures. So the first one is observation, so the teacher can closely observe the child's behaviour, the interaction with peers, the level of engagement in class activities and their overall performance. So paying attention to the child's curiosity and critical thinking skills and ability to grasp new concepts quickly can provide valuable insights. So a teacher observation form may be developed to capture this information, and a good starting point is Karen Rogers’ book, Re-Forming Gifted Education. She has some templates in there, and these can be adapted to suit different contexts. 

Another way is through differentiated instruction. So teachers can provide differentiated instruction to meet the child's unique learning needs. So this might involve offering more challenging activities, adjusting the pace of instruction or incorporating advanced materials to keep the child engaged and challenged. So we always talk about the breadth, the depth and the complexity with tasks that can be achieved within the stage outcomes of subjects. So, unless officially accelerated, students should continue with the same year or stage outcomes of subjects, and there's so much breadth there that you can tease out within each of those outcomes. So successful and targeted differentiation depends hugely on pre-assessment, and this supports the first professional standards of teachers – know your students and how they learn – so pre-assessment is so important.  

The teachers can also look at formal and informal assessments, so they can conduct both the formal and informal assessments to evaluate the child's cognitive abilities, their creativity, and other potential indicators of giftedness. So these assessments may include standardized tests, teacher-created assessments, and the observation of the child's problem solving skills. So assessments may include both subjective and objective, and they must include both ability and achievement. So assessment of learning should also include extension work that's covered within the differentiated curriculum. This is to ascertain the growth in the development of the student knowledge and their understanding through skill-based activities, and it should focus on both the process and the product.  

It's really, really important also that teachers and educational leaders involve the parents, so communicate with the child's parents to gather information about the child's abilities, their interests, any previous assessments or experience that may indicate giftedness. So parents can provide valuable insights into the child's development. And again, a parent observation form could be developed to capture this information, and again, Karen Rogers’ book Re-Forming Gifted Education can provide a starting point with that.  

I think also providing students with enrichment opportunities as opposed to extension opportunities – activities that do not relate to subject outcomes. So enrichment activities are those that occur outside of the classroom, and do not relate to the outcomes where extension activities are related to the outcome and occur in the classroom. So you might have different types of projects. Passion projects, extracurricular activities that cater to the students’ interests and strength. Another way of helping with gifted students – identifying them – is through flexible grouping. So consider different types of strategies that allow the students to work with peers who share possibly similar abilities or interests, and this could provide a more stimulating learning environment and foster collaboration among your gifted students. And, of course, professional development. You can't get enough professional development for our teachers, and just to enhance the teacher's ability to identify and support our gifted students, professional learning opportunities should be offered. So, understanding the characteristics and needs of gifted learners is so crucial for effective teaching. 

Again I come back to communication. So we spoke about communication with the parents, but maintaining open communication with the child, monitoring their progress and discussing their interests and goals, and include voice and choice in their class work. So regular communication with parents and the child – it's so important to make sure that you have a collaborative partnership approach to the child's education. So with identification, we usually commence with Sydney Catholic Schools in year 2. So I have a little saying with kindergarten, and year 1 – we’re there to create bubbles not to colour them in. So we still identify, we can still differentiate pre-assess K and year 1, but we can do that through parent forms that they've completed about their child, observation, teaching nominations and extend the student that way.  

So usually we commence a formal identification process in year 2. So all students are screened. We have to be equitable. You screen all the students for giftedness, and this can be done via COGAT or AGAT for ability. If students achieve above a stanine 7 – and this is discretion, it needs to be taken with the stanine 7 depending on the data – and we use that for the ability assessment. Then for achievement, we can use the PAT data – so Maths and Reading. I prefer non-adaptive to ascertain the off-level ceiling which is usually at or above the 85th percentile. Once you've ascertained their ceiling, then they can go into the adaptive.  

So these students then provide subjective data. So after you've done ability testing with them, you've done their achievement testing with them, then you can give them some Google sheets, Google forms or handwrite some documents to just give you even more information. Things like how they like to learn. And I'm not talking about learning styles, because we know that's a myth. It's how they like to learn, attitudes to school, how they enjoy their learning. What are their interests? So you can have those types of information, and you have your teacher and parent nomination forms, and you collect all of that data. So once you've got all of that – you've got your achievement data, you've got your ability data, you've got your subjective data from the student, the parent data, the teacher data. Collect all of that, and you create a student profile including everything. And the most important thing is, you develop strategies to ascertain the best way forward in teaching and learning each of your gifted students. 

So the whole class screening is suggested to be completed in year 2 and 4, with the parent and teacher nomination in kinder, and for secondary, screening of year 7 is completed whilst the student is in year 6 for term 4, so that they're ready to go in year 7. You've got all the information. And then again, in year 8. What's really important is to remember that if there is a psychometric report, such as a WISC or a Stanford-Binet, that report will trump any assessment completed at the school level. So we are reminded that as teachers, we're not psychologists, and we're not qualified to label students as gifted, with it best using the terminology of the student demonstrating high ability or aptitude in a particular domain. 

Marc: Bernadette, such clarity. I like how you also pointed out these things – I circle them because, you know, they really also stick out when I talk to schools, when I work with schools, and that is that aspect of differentiated instruction and identifying those starting points and entry points of all our students. But particularly if we're looking at that higher 10%, or those higher performing students, or those students who you suspect, and I like that idea of profile, build a profile around these students, not just around one aspect of what you see, but a number of things that you've collected in terms of evidence. I think parent involvement is immense, you know, get that communication going in terms of them also understanding what we see as high-performing students, what we know as possibly gifted and talented, and what steps need to be taken because it is a joint effort. It's a, you know, we need to work hand in hand to be able to do that.  

I like the idea too of professional development, I think that's important. If you feel like any educator, any leader, any teacher in the classroom, any position you have in education, there's probably almost not enough professional learning. But if you need to target some learning, do it. I often think of work by Helen Timperley and Helen always talked about, you know, identifying the evidence you collect about students. What do they need to know next? And what do teachers need to know next? And therefore, what are you going to target to find out how? And that's generally professional learning and development. 

Bernadette: Absolutely. And I think it's important that you said, you know, we would look at this for all students, and I think it's really important that people keep in mind that gifted education is just good pedagogy. It's just good practice, and it's good for all of our students. 

Marc: We never stop learning, do we? My next question is this. You know, we often talk about differences. So in this case, what is the difference between students who are higher-order thinking, or higher performers, against those who are gifted and talented? 

Bernadette: This is a really good question, and why it is so important to have access to data indicating both ability and achievement. So higher performing students may work hard and be capable of extension work and achieve highly in standardised tests and assessments. Gifted students may demonstrate ability, but this does not necessarily translate to high achievement results. 

So let's first think about higher-order thinking. So higher-order thinking refers to cognitive processes that involve critical analysis, synthesis, evaluation, and creativity, and it goes beyond memorization, and it requires the students to engage in complex thought processes. So students with higher-order thinking skills can analyse information, they can solve problems, they make connections between concepts, and they think critically about various subjects. So analysing a complex text, or solving open-ended maths problems, or designing experiments and engaging in creative problem-solving are some of those examples of higher-order thinking. 

if we turn our attention now to higher performers, so higher performers are students who consistently achieve at a high level academically across various subjects. Their performance is typically characterized by high grades and test scores. So high performing students usually excel in the traditional academic measures and demonstrate proficiency in the content covered in their classes. So a student, for example, who consistently earns A grades in various subjects, and scores well on standardised tests, and demonstrates mastery of the curriculum is a high performer. 

So now we turn our attention to gifted and talented. So we know Gagné’s definition, and gifted and talented students are those who demonstrate exceptional abilities or potential in one or more areas. So maybe in an intellectual, creative, artistic, leadership or specific academic domains. So these gifted students may show advanced cognitive abilities, they may demonstrate heightened level of creativity, a deep passion for a particular subject or exceptional leader leadership skills. So, for example, a student who excels in mathematics far beyond their grade level, or demonstrates exceptional artistic talent, or shows natural leadership qualities, or has a profound depth of understanding in a specific area of interest are examples of students who may be gifted. 

So in summary, while higher-order thinking, higher performers, and gifted and talented students all share some commonalities, they focus on different aspects of students’ abilities and achievements. So higher-order thinking emphasises cognitive processes, higher performers focus on academic achievement and gifted and talented students showcase exceptional abilities in specific areas. So it's important to recognise that a student may fall into one or more of these categories simultaneously, and educators should consider a holistic approach when identifying and supporting students with diverse strengths and needs. 

Marc: Bernadette, it's interesting that as you speak, I think back in my own teaching career, and I think back about the students who I had who I thought may have been gifted and talented. But those who were high performers, those who you were characterizing in terms of what leadership, what passion they had. And I've got to admit that in my time I did have 2 students who were identified but just 2, and that was in 30 years of teaching, or nearly 35 I should say. So it is important that we find out where our students sit and how we identify them. And I think you've made that exceptionally clear. So as a teacher that brings me to my next question: what can be put in place to support teachers and leaders, probably to be more confident, more competent, when working with students who are high performing, and who have been assessed as gifted and talented?  

Bernadette: Yes, so we really need to support our teachers and our education leaders, and we really want them to be confident and competent when working with high performing and gifted and talented students. It involves a combination of professional development, making sure they have resources, and a supportive school culture. So just unpacking a couple of those: so with professional development, providing specialized training programs for teachers and our educational leaders and focus on understanding the characteristics and the needs of high performing and gifted students. So this may include strategies for pre-assessment, making sure our teachers understand what pre-assessment is, and making sure that then they can understand post-assessment and how to measure student growth, how they differentiate instruction – and this includes specific strategies for gifted students, such as the Maker Model, the Bloom and Krathwohl Model, Kaplan, Williams Model – and to make sure that those strategies and models are used in extension activities in enrichment and also addressing social-emotional aspects. I think also offering regular workshops that cover topics such as identification, providing effective provisions, assessment principles, curriculum compacting and acceleration options, and also effective strategies for engaging gifted learners are absolutely vital. 

I also think that we should be looking at mentorship programs for our teachers and educational leaders. So establishing mentorship programs where experienced gifted educators work with those who are less experienced and share insights and strategies for effective teaching and support for higher performing and gifted students. And this could include collaborative planning, so encouraging collaborative planning and sharing of resources among teachers to leverage each other's expertise and experience in working with high performing and gifted students.  

And also, our teachers need access to resources, so providing our teachers with access to curricular materials, other resources, any teaching tool specifically designed for high performing gifted students. So this may also include connecting with GERRIC at the University of New South Wales. So GERRIC is the Gifted Education, Research, Resource and Information Centre, and this centre was first established by Professor Miraca Gross in 1991, and GERRIC is one of the only substantial centres devoted to gifted education research. They have professional development of educators, they have programs for gifted students, they have courses for parents, gifted program evaluations for schools and school systems, and they also have gifted education resources and information. There’s also only about 10 of these centres worldwide, and so we're so lucky to have one in Sydney.  

So GERRIC contributes to many aspects of education and development of gifted students. They offer courses such as Mini-COGE in gifted ed workshops for educators, and these can act as a springboard for studying the post graduate certificates and gifted education and the masters. They've got the school holiday programs for gifted students. They've got master classes in gifted education, and they've got gifted education conferences which is facilitated by experts in the field. In collaboration with the New South Wales Department of Education, GERRIC hosts the Ignite the Spark Conference, and this conference focuses on approaches to differentiation in the classroom, whole school and community of schools context to support students’ learning. 

The other things that could possibly assist our teachers is making sure that they have access to professional libraries. So a school or a school system, making sure that they establish a professional library within the system or school, so that they have books or journals or other resources related to gifted education and teaching strategies. And I also think that teachers also should have access to individualised professional development plans. So customised training for our teachers; we want to differentiate for students, we need to differentiate for our teachers as well. So developing individualised professional development plans for our teachers and leaders based on their specific needs and their goals in supporting high performing and gifted students. So this could involve self-assessment, it could be goal setting and it could be targeted training. And it also could include peer observations, so encouraging peer observations where teachers can observe and learn from each other’s practices in gifted education. And this can help in sharing effective strategies and fostering a culture of continuous improvement. And then that leads to feedback: so establishing feedback mechanisms such as peer reviews or instructional coaching to provide constructive feedback and support for our teachers working with high performing and gifted students.  

To be able to establish all that, we need to make sure that we have an inclusive school culture – so acknowledging and celebrating the achievements of our high performing and gifted students within a school community, and this fosters a positive and inclusive school culture that values and supports diverse talents. Also with that, the creation of professional learning communities where teachers can collaborate share experience and discuss effective strategies for teaching and supporting high performing and gifted students. And of course, parental involvement. We need to make sure that we educate our parents. We need to make sure we provide resources and information to our parents so that they understand the needs of high performing and gifted students. And this can help so much to create a collaborative approach between our teachers and our parents and our students to support their educational journey. 

Marc: Bernadette, thank you. Bernadette, you really pointed out a couple of things here, and that is that when we look at our class and that's it, you know, if we got our 25, or 30 students. Whatever number we have in front of us. It's about all of the kids. But we specifically target groups of students that we need to identify. When we look at such complex and diverse schools, it's also another way of actually having that knowledge, having that understanding, having those resources, having those tools. But also, how to use the tools and the resources to be able to achieve supporting teachers in a classroom on a day-to-day basis. Bernadette, I'd like to thank you for a couple of things. One is your knowledge, your deep knowledge in this area. But partnered with that is your passion and the passion that you show in this – again, this complex, diverse, but also sometimes tricky space for teachers to actually work in, and leaders to work in. 

Today's guest has been Bernadette Bentley. We thank her for her time. And if you're listening today, I would absolutely encourage you to share this podcast with your colleagues. Thank you very much. 

Bernadette: Thank you, Marc. 

Alex: Thank you again to Bernadette Bentley from Sydney Catholic Schools.  

 If you’d like to know more about any of the assessments mentioned in this episode, please feel free to contact ACER’s School support team at   

Thank you for listening, and we hope to have another insightful episode in your feed before too long.  

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